Genius and MTV have teamed up to bring you a new look into New York hip hop from ‘97 to ‘98. MTV has dug deep into their vaults and found three gems, each never before seen in its entirety. As part of an ongoing project, MTV is looking to the Genius community to add context and personal stories to these interviews with some of the all time greats
Here we have the second release in the collaboration between Genius and MTV. The interview takes you on the set of the ‘4,3,2,1’ video shoot featuring a cast of New York hip hop icons and captures several defining characteristics of New York hip hop in ‘97: LL’s longevity, Method Man’s prominence outside of Wu-Tang, and DMX’s rising stardom. Along with Redman, watch the four hip hop legends cut it loose during an otherwise tense time in the genre’s history
Interview by Abbie Kearse
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Interviewer: All right. Well, I am glad we have got everybody together. It took a little work, it took a little work, but we have got everybody together. What I want to talk about first is L, I want to talk about getting this group together for your record. How did that come about?
LL Cool J: Well, I felt like I had heard Meth and Red do a lot of records together and––you gotta pardon me, I'm a little hoarse––I felt like they were––the teamwork that they displayed in their records was uncanny and I felt like they sounded real good and I could add a lot to that chemistry
Interviewer: So you are talking about the record and the video for –
LL Cool J: Yeah, like How High and the different songs that they made together. I felt like they were just powerful songs and it influenced me so much that I felt like I wanted to be a part of that because it felt so good to me. Then my man D, he is new and he is upcoming and he has got a lot of flavor. I feel like this would be a good opportunity to display some new people on the record as well. And I felt like all of us together, including Canibus, could make something that was going to be powerful and something that would influence people. Hopefully they might come back to hip hop and enjoy hip hop because this particular record, the essence of it just the vocals and each individual displaying what they feel, expressing themselves in an artistic matter. But at the same time, us gelling together to create one work
Interviewer: I was going to say it definitely has more of an old school – are you all right?
LL Cool J: I’m pretty all right. Do your thing. You just do what you do
Interviewer: Well, because we can stop
LL Cool J: No, I’m all right
Interviewer: I was going to say that the record has an old-school vibe to it in the fact that each MC has their different line and their break. So was that something you had in mind when putting the record together to go back?
LL Cool J: Yeah, well the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 thing was something that was real important to me because I felt like we were taking it back. What do you guys think?
Method Man: I wasn’t listening
Interviewer: This is what happens. You get a group together and Meth wasn’t listening. Well, LL, you tell him
LL Cool J: How do you feel about the old-school element of this? With it being like four or five MCs coming together? And the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 hook just bringing all that together. How do you feel about that?
Method Man: I feel like it’s only right to pay homage, you know what I’m saying? To the brothers that brought it in here. Do you know what I mean? So far it is to come out and come on, Living Legend Cool J, you know what I’m saying? Like, for us to even be here, it’s like the epitome of rap right now. You know what I’m saying? We are about to take it and blow it out the frame. That is why we have to count it down, 4, 3, 2, 1 is about to blow up out this piece. Word up, it’s great to be a part of it, do you know what I’m saying?
Interviewer: Well, I wanted to talk about – you were talking about LL as a legend. I mean, you have been in the game for a long time and going back to those days of the records where it was really about the MC and almost the freestyle – so is this for you guys a freestyle type of record?
LL Cool J: You know, a lot of times when people talk about freestyle it is interesting because being a student of hip hop and growing up on hip hop I learned that freestyle back in the day really was when you write a rhyme and then you say it. What people call freestyle now is what people used to call off the top of the head. So it kills me when people say ‘freestyle’ because it –
DMX: It’s something else
LL Cool J: Yeah, it’s the wrong definition but it has taken on this ill kind of connotation. The reality is this was about guys putting forth what they write down and what they feel and expressing themselves as an artist. Each individual occupying their own space and making the statement that they want to make. And that is part of what we do. I think the whole country is about that, individuals being able to express themselves where they feel comfortable and say to the world what they feel comfortable saying. And displaying to the world what they are feeling emotionally
Interviewer: So you are saying in the old days freestyle was more about you had a rhyme that you were rehearsing in your room over and over again, and that is what you came out –
DMX: Just talking mess, that’s all. You are not talking about any particular subject, just talking about how good you are. That was freestyle to me. Because there are many styles of rap, you know what I am saying? Story rhymes, you know what I am saying? All types of styles. Freestyle to me is a style, not really speaking of any one particular subject, just how nice you are
Interviewer: Well I want to go down the line and get some opinions of your – or what are some of your favorite freestyle raps that you have either done yourself or that somebody else did that is just one of your favorites over the years? So, Reg?
Redman: Freestyle – like, I mean, I mean, not to like – not too many artists that you can catch freestyle unless you cipher with them, you know what I am saying? I mean, unless they do a little skit on the album or something like that. You have got to catch a freestyle artist at a party or something where he get the mic and air it out, you know what I am saying? I really vibe off brothers from the street, like my piece that I am coming out with – I vibe off them freestyling on the mic. I am still taking the heat on the business level and the record industry level while they are still here taking the heat on the streets. So what they are freestyling about would be way different from somebody from the industry. So I really vibe off of up and coming artists, really
Interviewer: Do you have any favorite? Either that you learned, what was your first rhyme that you learned? Or do you have a favorite?
Redman: I mean, as far as freestyle, sometimes you know, freestyle is off the top of the head but sometimes people use it as a meaning of freestyle, like the lyrics are straight up about anything. You could write a freestyle, just straight up talking about anything or any subject, any particular – you could jump from subject to subject. As a matter of fact, the freestyle is what got me on, you know what I am saying? With Bizmark EPMD. You know what I am saying? Bizmark took me to Monticello Park in Queens and I went down there and aired it out with a freestyle and people know me on the ground for freestyle rapping, do you know what I am saying? And when I did EPMD it was the same way. So it gives freestyle a bit more respect than it is, instead of just saying freestyle, freestyle
Interviewer: It’s an art
Redman: It’s an art, it’s a technique, yo
Interviewer: Meth, do you have a favorite? What was the first freestyle you ever did, whenever you got on the mic? I don’t know, what was your first experience that you had to come up with something? What did you rap about?
Method Man: It was some old Gilligan’s Island rhyme or something like that, you know what I am saying? It had the theme to Gilligan’s Island in it. I don’t really remember how it goes or whatever yet. It was one of my first joints but I had to come back strong after that. I remember they were throwing empty crack vials at niggas and all that shit. You know, we was up at the club and it was bad, up in the rec room party, [inaudible - 00:06:56]
Interviewer: So do you see it as an art form that right now a lot of MCs don’t appreciate because there is a lot – now that you have the studio and you can just go in there and push a button and do your, you know, you can do your thing and you don’t have to do it live – do you think that as an art form that is kind of lost right now?
Method Man: Yo, man, it’s like I don’t like for somebody to come up and ask me to rhyme off the top in the street like that. I don’t care for a camera in my face or if we are on the radio, do you know what I mean? If I came here to do one thing, I am coming here to do one thing. So it is like when you know you are getting paid for this and this is a job, you hold in all your stuff. It is like, man, I ain’t giving this out for free no more. So when they say freestyle they get funny at times, like freestyle. There ain’t nothing for free. That’s why you got paidstyle now, you know what I’m saying?
Interviewer: It’s paidstyle?
Method Man: For real, yeah, it’s paidstyle. Exactly. When it’s [inaudible - 00:07:51] the show is over and you is out, and you in the parking lot – because usually it is the parking lot or the hotel that we are at or whatever, and cats is there and they are starting it theyself, but they open it up enough for you to step in and listen, that’s peace right there. Because they ain’t asking you for nothing. If anything, they give it. Like check us out, this is how we get down. And if you feel like you want to join in, join in. I will be out there until sunup. Perform for three hours and be out there until sunup
Interviewer: You’re afraid that if you go on the radio, or like right now if you were to freestyle for us, you are afraid another MC is going to take that?
Method Man: No, it’s like I said man, I ain’t just going freestyle off the top like that and just come at you on some yo, this is [inaudible - 00:08:30], or whatever, like that
LL Cool J: I think the analogy that is he is making is simply that as good as Michael Jordan is at basketball, the reality is he wouldn’t stop at a playground and go in there and risk start dunking around and doing his thing, soaring over cracks in the asphalt to dunk glory, you know, at the playground. There are just certain levels to it. I think that freestyle is very important because it keeps you on your Ps and Qs and it makes sure that you are sharp in terms of the way you articulate what you are feeling. But you know, the reality is I think you have to constantly grow and there has to be growth there. You know?
Interviewer: Oh wait, is everything okay? Is it all right?
Method Man: No, we were just saying how NEWS is like north, east, west, and south. You know what I am saying? It’s all news. North, east, west, and south
LL Cool J: That’s where it comes from, probably
Interviewer: So DMX, I know that you are relatively new, at least to us
DMX: To the label, but not to the game though. Not to the game
Interviewer: So how long have you been in it?
DMX: I have been on the floor for like 13, 14 years. You know what I am saying? I am only 26, so I just was doing it, you know what I am saying? And not even thinking about getting on, just doing it because I love doing it. Do you know what I am saying? I like doing it, I like getting the response, do you know what I mean? From my people
Interviewer: So what about yourself? Do you have any favorite? Like, was there a certain – who, to you, do you feel was the best at the art of freestyling? I know you have got LL standing here, but you can honest
DMX: That’s a tough one. The best – I mean, I would have to say me. I mean, not – I would have to say that on the [inaudible - 00:10:08], you know what I’m saying? But that I write what I like to hear, you know what I’m saying? And niggas been doing it for a mad long time and there is much respect in all that, you know what I’m saying? So you can’t take nothing from nobody. But do you know what I’m saying? But I’m sure every one of us here feel the same way, we’re the best. I am, I mean, they all say that they are because you have to feel like that
Interviewer: Well I know that Meth, you were saying that you want to get paidstyle, you want to get paid. But would you do something to give us a little example? Because –
DMX: You mean, would I do it now?
Interviewer: Yeah, just a little something. I could do the human beat box
DMX: I mean, I got the curses. Do you know a lot of our stuff?
Interviewer: That’s all right, too
DMX: All right, well if you want it like that – check it. I’m headed nowhere fast, running in place, gun at my waist, niggas wanted a taste but wouldn’t come at my face. So what that mean? You catch us playing games again, so now what do I do? Start naming names again. All you player haters know that I speak from the heart. You play like you don’t know how [inaudible - 00:10:56]. We can take it there but to make it fair get some more niggas. Locks and myself will come with like four niggas. Ya’ll niggas best just stop playing because the [inaudible - 00:11:02] that you have forgotten about that will get you shot in your mouth. Got my dogs covered, plus it’s all gravy like chicken when it’s smothered. It’s dark and I love it. Get him boy, let ‘em loose. You want it with a dog or the gun, let him choose
Interviewer: All right, that’s a good one. So L, now, when you see what’s happening today and what I was talking about is the luxury a lot of artists have of the studio. You could go in there and you could do your rhyme and you could say one line and do another and do it over and over again. Do you think that a lot of artists in hip hop today have lost the art of just being able to come up with something off the top of their head and have it flow?
LL Cool J: I don’t think so. I don’t even – honestly, I don’t even understand that question. I think that hip hop has only grown, you know? I mean, the reality is when something evolves it changes shape and I think that people have expanded on upon what already existed and taken it to the next level and I think that is important. I don’t think that any of the true art of hip hop has been lost because like I always say music – art imitates life. And rap music imitates life because it’s art. And the mirror doesn’t change, just the reflections in the mirror, you know? If ten different people stand in front of the same mirror, the mirror didn’t change but the reflection will change. So something that he is rhyming about and feeling now, something that he is rhyming about and feeling now, and something that Melle Mel was rhyming about or what Run was rhyming about is going to be different. The art didn’t change. It is still young, urban men, African-American men, expressing what they feel growing up in an inner city environment. It is just that socially things have changed. You know, Reaganomics have come and gone, different political policies have been implemented, so it is going to reflect in what they talk about
Interviewer: Let me ask you about the style, Reg’s style, Meth’s style, DMX, what you like. I just want to get a sense of why you picked them, you put them on your record, what is it that –
LL Cool J: I feel like the beginning of one of those old kung-fu movies or something. Redman, he is known for dah, dah, dah. Method Man, he is the – DMX. You know, they all do their thing
Interviewer: But they do it different. That is what is interesting, is they all do it differently
LL Cool J: They are different. They are different. You know, Red – his thing is like intergalactic and wild out, and he talks about things – he says things that make you laugh and make you feel good. And he just paints an interesting picture, do you know what I am saying? He makes you feel like, you know, like his whole zone – you know what I’m saying, it’s a place that you want to be. You know, he makes you feel like it is a cool place to be, like you want to sit in his car and listen to him because he is talking about a lot of things that people don’t know. And he has a very cool flow the way he rhymes tracks that makes you want to dance. You know, he can take the worst beat and just the way he sits on top of it makes you want to dance. And DMX, the way he delivers things makes you feel like he is full of confidence in that you believe him so much that it makes it more interesting for you because you believe that he believes what he is saying, and that is a good thing. Do you know what I am saying? And that’s what I feel. And me, I just do what I do
Interviewer: So what are we going to see that you are shooting here today?
LL Cool J: What we are shooting today is a video that we are all involved in. It is called 4,3, 2, 1. It is a song on my album, Phenomenon. And there is an opportunity for everybody to just express themselves as artists and we came together and we are going to do some hip hop
Interviewer: What about the look on this?
LL Cool J: The look?
Interviewer: Yeah, because this reminds me of a lot of the older rap videos where everything was shot in New York City kind of in this vibe, and now everything is color and you know – you know what I’m saying. You know, hyped. So this kind of reminds –
LL Cool J: This is more about what we are feeling as artists and just basic hip hop. It is very basic, it is very simple. There is no glitter. A little ice, but we will hide that
Interviewer: But you know what I am saying, like how like now the videos, everybody has got a hot -
LL Cool J: It’s evolved, it’s evolved. And that’s a good thing
Interviewer: Yeah, and that’s good. But it is kind of a look
LL Cool J: It has evolved. I mean, there used to be a time when all rock videos, with guys with long hair doing this and breaking guitars. I mean, it evolves. Do you know what I am saying? It is cool. I think that it is just an opportunity for us to do something basic. It reminds me of head bangers, you know, back in the days with those kind of videos. It is just one of those things
Interviewer: For [inaudible - 00:15:37]. It looks a little like that
LL Cool J: Yeah, you know what I am saying? And that’s cool, I think that’s a cool thing because it puts less emphasis on the set and the video and what it looks like and more emphasis on the artistry. You know what I’m saying? I think that sometimes this is kind of like an unplugged, if you will, visually. Cinematically, you know what I am saying? Without all the glitz and glamour
Interviewer: And you get to put on your winter coat, finally
LL Cool J: Yeah, I get to put on my winter coat
Interviewer: All right, well just one quick question I have to ask about – I know this is odd, I have to ask you about Thanksgiving. What does it mean –
LL Cool J: That was a non sequitur. I’m just playing, go ahead
Interviewer: Well, I was asked to ask you about Thanksgiving. What does Thanksgiving mean to you?
LL Cool J: To me? For me, Thanksgiving is an opportunity to be with my family, to share the meaning of love, to share our spiritual relationship and a spiritual intimacy with my wife, my children, my grandmother, my mother, and all those – all of my loved ones. Whether or not someone believes in a religious connotation of Thanksgiving is another issue. What it means historically, that is another issue. But relative to my family and me now it is just an opportunity for me to share love and to spiritually get closer, break bread, and be one. And unity, you know, with the family – that is very important, first and foremost
Interviewer: That is a good answer. Reg? Thanksgiving, what does it mean to you?
Redman: Thanksgiving – I mean, it mean – what does that fall on, the 25th, right? I mean, it is like just eating some good food for a minute, man. You know, I mean, you know artist that be on the road or you know, we are doing our thing, sticking with this hip hop thing, it is a 24-hour –
Method Man: You miss it a lot
Redman: You know what I am saying, it is a 24-hour-a-day job for us, so you know, it is usually the Jamaican restaurant or something. Or the corner store sometimes because we don’t have time to really go catch a quick meal, but you know that is one day. You know, we can certainly cipher and chill out. And eat some good, some good stuff
Method Man: Thanks for giving. Thanks for giving, I don’t celebrate though. I don’t celebrate, I don’t celebrate, thanks for giving
DMX: It’s just dinner man, dinner. Turkey, stuffing, all that type of shit. You know what I mean. Ain’t a whole lot to that. There ain’t a whole to that, it’s just food. Food, a lot of it, everywhere
Interviewer: Okay, that’s good. You know what they are doing something Beavis and Butthead and Kurt Loder, are going to be covering the parade
LL Cool J: Yo man, you said Jamaican food, because you are on tour, dog?
Redman: No, just –
LL Cool J: I am feeling you, fam. I’m feeling you. Oh my God
Interviewer: Thank you
LL Cool J: Thanks for giving, yo. 4, 3, 2, 1, coming to a theater near you
