"We've been very lucky to be in the kind of band that had grown slowly and organically over all our records," says PUP's affable vocalist and songwriter Stefan Babcock. "You see artists where they get a hit, and they suddenly go from playing from 50 people to 2,000 people, and I can only imagine the problems that come with that. I can't really understand or relate to it.
It's been a steady grind for Toronto's PUP since the 2013 release of their brilliant self-titled debut. At each stage, however, they've brought more people with them, culminating in the widescreen breakout of 2022's kaleidoscopic punk rock opera 'The Unravelling of PUPtheband'. Along the way, they've frequently met with critical acclaim – including nods from the prestigious Polaris and Juno awards committees. Now the quartet – completed by guitarist Steve Sladkowski, bassist Nestor Chumak and drummer Zack Mykula – are back with 'Who Will Look After the Dogs?' – and it's their best outing yet.
Today, appropriately, Stefan is dog-sitting an eight-week-old pup who is intent on causing mischief and mayhem. After learning how to open the puppy gate, there'll be frequent pauses when the pup escapes from "doggy jail" to stop it from causing damage or harm to itself. It is adorably cute, and Stefan's rightly smitten.
Appropriately, such chaos feels like a fitting portent for a chat with the band that gave us songs like 'If This Tour Doesn't Kill You, I Will', and where the biography for the new record claimed that the four members "don't like each other" when they're making records.
"I would much rather be in a band with people who care so much that there's a lot of contention in it," says Stefan. "The best version of our band is when we're all fighting because we all want the same thing. I mean, it's not like one of us wants to be a ska band and another wants to be an indie rock band – and I use that as an example because I have been in that exact situation – we all want the same thing, and that's what unites us.
The process may sound counter-intuitive, but the results speak for themselves – and they have done on every record the quartet has released. From the naked aggression and youthful exuberance of 'PUP' through to the bitingly-self-aware growth on 'Morbid Stuff' and bold experimentation on 'The Unravelling of PUPtheband' they've managed to build a flawless discography where each record captures the headspace of PUP, and in particular Stefan, in a specific moment in time.
"It feels like a journey from me being a little shithead to me being a bigger – no, older – shithead"
To an extent, 'Who Will Look After the Dogs?' is a blend of all of these things; it starts with a couple of ragers – 'No Hope' and 'Olive Garden' – both of which are prime PUP punk blasts and perfect for frenzied mosh pits. Yet three of the final four tracks – 'Hallways', 'Best Revenge and 'Shut Up' – might be the most elegant and nuanced take on their identifiable sound to date.
In between, PUP run the gamut of emotions, from anger to regret to nihilism – as per all the best PUP songs. They're a band known for irreverence, searing humour and forthright honesty – and all these traits run through 'Who Will Look After the Dogs?', like a pack of wolves on the hunt. Not that it's been an easy record to make…
Immediately prior to the release of 'The Unravelling of PUPtheband', Stefan went through a breakup, meaning it would be easy to look at 'Who Will Look After the Dogs?' through that lens – even though Stefan's at pains to stress that it is very much not a breakup record.
"The sequencing of the songs is very deliberate," says Stefan, "but it took us recording them all and then hearing them together to realise that. The first few songs are written from the perspective of me as a teenager, and the last song was about something that happened a couple of weeks before we went into the studio, so there is a sort of chronology there,
"The other records, they've been little snapshots of what's been going on in my life over a six-month period. This one, I started writing it from a dark place, but I really didn't want to make a breakup record. I started to reflect on these different experiences and different stages in my life, and a lot of stuff came out of that. It was nice.
The word 'mature', however, can be like napalm to punk rock fans, leading to charges that the band has "gone soft" or, worse still, "sold out". These aren't things you could level at PUP or 'Who Will Look After the Dogs?', but you could legitimately call it the John K Samsonising of PUP the band with some justification.
For the uninitiated, Samson was one-time Propaghandi bassist turned punk poet with the Weakerthans, and now widely revered as the best Canadian songwriter of his generation. Whisper it quietly, but in Babcock, there might just be a new contender for the crown.
"We wanted to strip it back to how we recorded the first PUP record"
But the crossover doesn't end there; Samson is a PUP favourite, and they've regularly covered the Weakerthans' 'Plea from a Cat Named Virtute' on tour, while 'Hallways' – inspired by Better Oblivion Community Centre's 'Dylan Thomas' – also shares a passing similarity to the Winnipeg heroes' gorgeous 'Sun in an Empty Room'. 'Shut Up', meanwhile, might be the only pop-punk song to contain lyrics about a Master's thesis since, well, John K Samson's very own 'When I Write My Master's Thesis'.
Yet, while Babcock has undoubtedly grown as a songwriter, for 'Who Will Look After the Dogs?', PUP have leaned into their raw punk sound to accompany it. It's rough, unpolished, and the closest record to capturing the live PUP experience since their incendiary debut.
"We're really proud of what we accomplished on the last record," says Stefan, "but this time, we wanted to take the exact opposite approach. We wanted to strip it back to how we recorded the first PUP record, when it was just literally the four of us in a room playing. It has a special energy to it, and we wanted to get back to that, as we're now better musicians, we're better as a band, we're more confident in our abilities.
"We wanted to make a record where we focus on getting the performance right and the energy right, and not worry too much about the mistakes, overdubs, or adding too many instruments. On the last record, with Peter [Katis, producer], we were hyper-focused on playing everything perfectly, and if there was any space, we'd try and fill it with extra instrumentation or harmonies. This one, we really went back to the roots of being confident in the fact that we're a really good live band, and we wanted to capture that spirit and energy.
It means that 'Who Will Look After the Dogs?' finds the sweet spot between craft and passion. It's an album engineered beautifully, with some of Babcock's best lyrical work contained within, but it's also delivered with a freeness that captures PUP at their blistering best.
"We're fuck ups on so many levels"
Stefan estimates that he wrote about 30 songs for the record – a complete change-up from the normally svelte writing process that preceded previous records. Of course, he had a lot of stuff to work through, but changes in circumstance meant that he could throw himself into work without much of a support net to fall back on. He's also been writing with and for other artists – a lesson in empathy, he'll attest – but such developments also bring hard-headed decisions. In short, it means there's no 'making do' on 'Who Will Look After the Dogs?' – just the 12 best songs from Stefan's songbook.
"Sometimes, I'll feel like a song sucks, but there's something in it, some value," says Stefan when thinking about this process. "There has to be something there for you if you've gone and spent a whole day on it, right? But I think I wrote through the bad stuff.
"As I said, I didn't want to make a breakup record at all, but this is the first time I've made a record where I wasn't with someone. My bandmates are my best friends, but when we're writing and making a record, we spend so much time together that things can get heated, and we tend to withdraw from one another. We don't hang out socially. Normally, I'd turn all that social energy to the person that I'm with. I couldn't do that. I just didn't have any of that support. So, I found comfort in writing songs, which is convenient for the project, but I'm sure there's an element of that which is unhealthy, just diving into work to help you get through every single day.
"I'm sure there was some frustration from my bandmates when I would come in each morning as they'd get going on something good, and I would want to switch up songs. I'm sure I'm not the easiest person to work with in general. I have a great admiration for all my bandmates," laughs Stefan.
And this, in truth, is why PUP works; Stefan clearly loves his bandmates. In much the same way as the Menzingers remain four best pals who have taken their brand of blue-collar punk rock to stages all over the world, PUP are in the same boat; a band of brothers who repeatedly strike gold record after record. For PUP, the gold comes through friction and opposition, by challenging each other to be the best they can be; for not half-arsing it or phoning it in, but appreciating the gift that's in front of them and working together for that greater good. With 'Who Will Look After the Dogs?' they've again reached a new high watermark.
PUP's album 'Who Will Look After The Dogs?' is out 2nd May.
